Stephen Graham plays men you can’t take your eyes off of, from Combo in This Is England to Al Capone in Boardwalk Empire to a chef unraveling in one unbroken take in Boiling Point . Then came Adolescence . The Netflix series, which he co-created and starred in as the father of a boy accused of murder, earned him an Emmy, a Golden Globe, and a BAFTA, and turned an actor everyone admired into one who gets to decide what gets made. Now he’s the heavy in Apple TV’s Nocturne , playing Jurek Walter, a serial killer held in the basement of a psychiatric hospital who manipulates the people around him from his cell. Next, he’ll appear in Michael Mann’s highly anticipated Heat 2 , but before that, he caught up with his Peaky Blinders castmate Cillian Murphy to talk about building a villain from the script up, the joy of a crew, and what comes after a watershed moment.
CILLIAN MURPHY: This is my favorite kind of thing. Talking to a friend, someone whose work you really admire. No cameras, just a chat.
MURPHY: I guess we should talk about Nocturne , but I’m also kind of aware that there’s not too much we can say about it because it feels like it’s one of those shows where you just got to watch it to find out about it. But I can say, having watched some of it, it is yet another fearless, riveting Stephen Graham performance to add to your canon of fearless and riveting Stephen Graham performances.
MURPHY: It’s mighty the work you do. To me, what impresses me most about your work is the range. You can play heartbreaking and vulnerable so beautifully, and then you can play intimidating and terrifying so convincingly, and you can play the ordinary man, so I’m curious to know how the process changes from role to role, from character to character. How do you approach, for example, this type of character in Nocturne?
GRAHAM: As you know, it all starts with the script, doesn’t it? I don’t mean to sound pretentious in any way, but I think it comes from that theater background of really looking at the script, analyzing the script, going over it and going over it and going over it. It’s that classic that we try and teach every young person as well. If ever I get asked for advice, I’m saying, “Just analyze the script and look at what’s said about your character. That will give you clues to who the person is and what he’s about.” And then particularly with this one, it was the physical aspect of him because look, I’m a little fella, do you know what I mean? But I wanted it to be a man who, if he really wanted to, could rip your jaw off with his bare hands. I did quite a lot of training with my trainer because I wanted to change my shape physically. And then with the director on this, Tim Van Patten, his sets are always a place where everybody is treated completely equally and everybody matters. And then it was just kind of breaking it down scene by scene. And for me, a lot of my stuff was with the gorgeous Rory Culkin, who I just found a fascinating, wonderful man. Look, I’ll be honest with you, we kind of dated a little bit. We went to galleries, we went out and had dinner, we went about 40 minutes outside of Pittsburgh and watched this lovely little play in the middle of nowhere. It was just getting to know each other so you could be comfortable with each other.
GRAHAM: Oh, and on top of that, Hannah’s obsessed with serial killers. And when I say obsessed, Cillian, I mean she’s obsessed to the extent where I’ll come home from somewhere or I’ll walk in from the garden and she’s watching one and I’m like, “Are you watching another one of these?” And she’s like, “Yeah, I love them.” So she schooled me in serial killers.
MURPHY: You and I will get asked this question a lot, which is, “How do you morally rationalize the choices of the characters that you play? Or do you judge the characters that you play? Or how does it feel to go home at night after having played a character as nefarious as this particular character?” And I remember reading somewhere years ago as a young actor, “If you’re going to play a miser, play his generosity.” I always thought that was really clever because there’s always a reason why people end up the way they are. And particularly if it’s good writing, that gets explored, which it clearly does in your show. How do you deal with those questions?
GRAHAM: With this one in particular, Rowan Joffe wrote a beautiful script, and then John Hlavin, our showrunner, we’d spend a lot of time together. And we really looked at the backstory and the reasons why he was doing what he was doing. And for me, it’s kind of a revenge story. It’s his pursuit for the truth. I saw it in one of those ways. You know that kind of beautiful essence of a Kurosawa film where vengeance has a reason? It’s just that, isn’t it? We try not to judge what our characters do at all, but look, me and you are never going to kill anyone, never. We’re lovers, not fighters. We’d rather walk around with daffodils in our back pockets than a machine gun. That’s my ethos as Stephen. And so it’s kind of trying to look at the reasons why he behaves the way he behaves. And again, I think it’s in the script. And then, when we were younger, we’d carry these things really heavy on our shoulders. I’m speaking for myself personally, and I’d take it, especially with something like This Is England , I’d take it home and I’d sit in it and I’d be in it for a long time. That was before children. But now I think at this tender age of 53, I’m on the back nine in the golf course. I think I’ve learned to enjoy it while I’m there, but when we go home, then basically I’m looking at tomorrow’s lines and I’m making myself something to eat and then I’ll try and catch up a little bit on, especially if you’re in another country, what’s happened at home with the football or what’s going on. So I try to have that moment and that time to just slow down, but it’s not bringing it home anymore.
MURPHY: You and I have worked together and what I have found is that it’s really, really important for me in between takes, particularly if the material is heavy and you’re getting into it and you have to go places, that between takes, I love levity, I love joking around, I love just having the craic because that keeps you in a state of relaxation and the heart rate is low. Because our battle always as actors is to fight that adrenaline and to fight that fight or flight thing that happened. I love staying on set between takes, chatting to the crew, chatting with the actors. If you go back to your trailer, what tends to happen is you start slipping back into that thing. So I think certainly when you and I worked together, that felt very much like we were in tune with that. Because similarly when I was young, I would carry it. It would be a burden, and it’s just not sustainable, is it? When you get older and when you have a family you just don’t want to be a Debbie Downer everywhere you go.
GRAHAM: I love what you’re saying there. I don’t like going back to my trailer and separating myself from what’s happening because you’re right, that energy on set is palpable and I think it’s important to keep that. Don’t get me wrong, if my wife’s dying of cancer, there’ll be a moment of stopping that and then going away for a little couple of seconds or maybe a minute or two before we take.
MURPHY: Of course. I think this word method gets thrown around too much. I think whatever method gets you to the performance, I’m good with it.
MURPHY: But I think it certainly evolved for me over time because you’re just figuring it out as you go. I’ve been doing it 30 years now, and I guess you’re probably the same vintage as that, and your method evolves and the way of working and arriving at a character evolves as you get older.
GRAHAM: Absolutely. To me, it’s all about the energy we have on the set and the energy we share with each other. And I’m a fan of acting. I love actors. I love watching performances, and especially in rehearsal when I’m kind of half Stephen, half the character, I’ll turn to people and go, “Wow, that’s brilliant.”
MURPHY: And you seem to be always working. Every time I’m texting you, you’re working and I’m always at home.
GRAHAM: Yes. That’s because Hannah hates it when I get under her feet for too long. The same as you, when I’m at home, I am at home. When I’m there, I am completely present. We’ve built a wonderful little life for ourselves at home, me and Hannah. We have a couple of pigs now. We’ve got Bert and Ernie, who I adore, a few goats, some chickens, and the dogs and the cats. I really love being at home. I adore my family. But I just love what we do, and I feel very blessed to be able to do what I do because I was a kid who wanted to do it from the age of 11.
MURPHY : That was my next question too. This was always number one then from that age?
GRAHAM: Yeah. It was all I ever wanted to do, either that or be a fireman. That was my second option.
MURPHY: Have you played a fireman yet in your career?
GRAHAM: I suppose that would be the bucket list, that one. But it’s the same with you, wasn’t it?
MURPHY: I didn’t do anything until I was 20. I was playing music, and music was what I was dead set on.
MURPHY: And then I didn’t see any theater until I was about 17 or 18, and it was mind-blowing, this theater company in Cork. And then the music didn’t work out, so I kind of asked that theater company for an audition, and then I was off. But anyway, Stephen, this isn’t about me, this is about you. So here’s a question for you. Adolescence , in my mind, is one of the generational pieces of television, pieces of art—it’s very hard to overstate the importance of that piece of work, just socially, but also I think as a pure piece of art. And all the deserved success and recognition of that show, how did that sit with you? Did it change your perspective or just reinforce your perspective?
GRAHAM: As you and I both know, we never do what we do for the awards aspect of it. The whole thing felt so special when we were making it, but you never know how something is going to be received. And again, I think that is quite possibly one of the most amazing experiences I’ve ever had on a set. And again, we have a similar sensibility, you and I, with respect for treating every single person equally on a set. I think that does come down from the top. That has to be said, how we treat each other. I think quite possibly the most basic thing is to be on time, to know your lines, and to come with an idea and bring that to the table. And we’re very fortunate: we were picked up in cars, we’re taken here, we’re taken there. But when you look at the crew, they’re making their own way there, and sometimes they’re there way before we are. On that particular job, it was an overwhelming feeling for every one of us that it felt brand new again. I really fell in love with the creative process of what we were doing. And then with respect to the success, what was beautiful about it was it was never individual. Turning up for the Emmys on a coach, I asked for a coach. I didn’t want individual cars. I wanted us all to travel together because it was an experience that we’d shared together. That was the ethos behind it all. And if I’m completely honest, it’s changed the trajectory for all of us involved. Look what it’s done for Owen [Cooper]. His career is now flourishing. He’s very similar to myself. He’s a kid from a working-class background, and his mother and father are absolutely adorable, and it’s given him massive opportunities. It’s enabled Ashley [Walters] to be considered for roles he would never be considered for. The same with Erin [Doherty]. And Christine [Tremarco], who I’ve known since we were kids, who played my wife, she couldn’t get a job until she did that, and we fought for her to get that role, and it’s changed everything for her.
MURPHY: I imagine that all the success for you and for Hannah and for everybody, when you’ve been doing it a long time, all it does is reinforce the choices that you were making along the way. We are going to double down on the type of work that we want to make now, the type of stories that we want to tell. And it seems to me that it’s very clear what you guys are doing, and I really, really admire that.
GRAHAM: Thank you very much. Yeah. And you know yourself, when it changes, when we get to sit at the table with the grownups, we can push things a little bit more, and we can ask for things a little bit more, and we can create opportunities for people that may not normally get those chances.
MURPHY: As a fanboy, can you tell me what’s going on with Heat 2 ? Is that top secret?
GRAHAM: No, I think I can talk about it a little bit. It’s one of those situations where I pinch myself, but it’s just something I’m really looking forward to. And again, I feel very privileged and very honored to be in this situation.
MURPHY: Well, I think every film fan in the world is looking forward to this movie.
MURPHY: So Nocturne , everybody should go and watch. It’s absolutely fantastic.
GRAHAM: Thank you, Cillian. That means the world coming from you.
MURPHY: Thank you for the work and everything that’s behind it.
Source: Fashion
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